From Conan to Stern, SiriusXM CEO Jennifer Witz is betting on talent and distribution

Jennifer Witz is the CEO of SiriusXM, a quietly fascinating firm. You in all probability realize it because the satellite tv for pc radio model that’s in nearly each new automobile, however it additionally owns Pandora, an enormous podcast community that features 99% Invisible and Team Coco, and a content material operation that helps enormous stars like Howard Stern and has offers with each main sports activities league. 

What’s notably attention-grabbing about SiriusXM is that it began as a distribution play — truly, two distribution performs. Sirius and XM have been two totally different corporations. They each launched competing satellite tv for pc radio companies within the early 2000s, mainly pre-internet, and finally merged.

Sirius is successfully the dominant market chief for built-in premium audio in automobiles. On the identical time, the competitors is right here. Spotify exists, podcasts exist, and sure, the SiriusXM app exists as effectively. And because the infotainment system in automobiles will get ever extra advanced and computer-like, the Sirius expertise has to maintain up. A thesis of Decoder is that distribution impacts what sort of content material you make, so I wished to know the way Jennifer is considering all of these totally different sorts of distribution. What are the variations between what Sirius makes for podcasts, for Pandora, and for the satellite tv for pc system? 

On high of that, the state of automobile software program is in whole flux. GM just announced it received’t help CarPlay in new EVs. Numerous corporations are utilizing numerous riffs on Android. One thing referred to as QNX retains effervescent alongside. Tesla has its personal factor. It’s a multitude. And Sirius has to help all of it with purposes that compete with Huge Tech corporations, all whereas persevering with to combine the satellite tv for pc {hardware} into the automobiles themselves — on high of placing satellites on SpaceX rockets.

That’s so much for Jennifer to handle, and we lined plenty of floor. I additionally assume I received Jennifer to agree to maneuver Highway Journey Radio to the Sirius channels, so for many who know, that’s a win.  

Okay, Jennifer Witz, CEO of SiriusXM. Right here we go.

This transcript has been flippantly edited for readability.

Jennifer Witz, you’re the CEO of SiriusXM. Welcome to Decoder.

Thanks, Nilay. It’s nice to be right here.

I’m very excited to have you ever right here. I’m a Sirius buyer, so I simply have quite a lot of characteristic requests. That’s it. That’s what we’re doing for the complete hour. My spouse is a hardcore person of the app; she has quite a lot of characteristic requests, so prepare.

Nice, I’d love to listen to them.

Let’s begin on the very starting. One of many themes we discuss in Decoder on a regular basis is that your distribution usually impacts what you make, and we see this over and over and over. I’ve defined it one million occasions. YouTube is my favourite instance. Everyone knows what a YouTuber appears like. Sirius is a extremely attention-grabbing firm as a result of it has so many alternative sorts of distribution, that are type of the product. It began as two totally different satellite tv for pc corporations with competing concepts about distribution. You’ve gotten Pandora, which is an web radio firm. You’ve gotten Stitcher, which is a podcasting wager throughout every kind of different folks’s distributions. How do you consider that?

It actually begins with Sirius and XM, which got here collectively about 14–15 years in the past now. That’s the major supply of our income. Subscription income from SiriusXM represents about 70 % of our total income, so we’re actually targeted on how we are able to proceed to ship worth to our SiriusXM subscribers. And the majority of these subscribers are listening to us over satellite tv for pc within the automobile however it actually restricted our means to do sure sorts of distribution.

So the content material that we offer over satellite tv for pc is admittedly broadcast, proper? One to many. The pipe is barely so massive; you may solely put so many channels on the air. However more and more, with our new platform that’s rolling out, which we name 360L, we are able to have much more interactivity in our service, whether or not it’s simply suggestions or extra content material generally however as you talked about, we’ve got a lot broader distribution. In the event you begin on the broadest level, it’s what we’re doing with podcasting, and that’s we consider in podcasters and content material creators who wish to distribute their content material broadly throughout all third-party platforms. And so we’ve got actually sturdy enterprise there as effectively, and that helps feed into SiriusXM over time.

I wish to begin with the satellite tv for pc enterprise. Like I mentioned, I’m a buyer, so I’ve a brand-new automobile that has 360L in it, and you may’t inform the distinction between when it’s utilizing cell broadband and when it’s utilizing the satellite tv for pc service. Then, I’ve a automobile from 2016, which truly solely has a Sirius radio. It doesn’t have an XM radio. And this, to me, is likely one of the most attention-grabbing expertise dilemmas that perhaps any CEO has to face. Sirius launched in 2002, XM in 2001. I bear in mind the XM launch and that the primary two satellites have been named Rock and Roll. That’s caught in my reminiscence. You need to launch satellites to help this enterprise, and the satellites usually are not suitable with one another. You’ll be able to’t improve the prevailing base of {hardware} within the automobiles. How do you consider that satellite tv for pc enterprise? How many individuals work on the satellites?

It’s nonetheless the core of our enterprise. We’re launching 4 extra satellites over the following few years, and we’ve got a constellation of satellites at this time that feed Sirius and XM, and really, the satellites are designed now to handle both community, so that they’re interchangeable, which supplies us with plenty of redundancy in orbit. There was simply information at this time that automobiles are more and more on the street for for much longer durations of time. So we’ve got an put in base of automobiles on the market, 150 million or extra, and plenty of of them have solely entry to Sirius or solely entry to XM, which we discuss with as low band and excessive band, respectively, however each of them get the identical set of content material at this time. That’s one of many issues that we applied shortly after the merger. 

Wait, right here’s my first characteristic request. My 2016 with solely a Sirius radio, it could’t get Highway Journey Radio as a result of it’s within the excessive band.

Proper. In the event you look on Reddit, it is a widespread grievance about this one very fashionable station.

Very fashionable station, particularly this time of yr. I’ll take that again to the staff and see what we are able to do.

All proper. Outcomes on Decoder. However that is the center of the issue, proper?

You’re closely hardware-dependent in an more and more software program world, and I’m simply questioning how you consider that specific type of drawback.

We’ve two avenues, I feel, to handle it. More and more, we’re rolling out our 360L platform, and that permits for an infinite quantity of content material. It’s rolling out slowly. A couple of third of our new automobile trial begins are 360L-capable at this time, however that’s solely about 8 million automobiles on the street. So 8 of the 150 million. The opposite mechanism we’ve got to handle is, after all, streaming solely. And we’re slowly constructing our streaming-only subscriber base. The overwhelming majority of our subscribers at this time are targeted on listening within the automobile with the radio that’s embedded within the automobile, however streaming permits us to leverage in automobiles that will not have a satellite tv for pc radio and even in automobiles that do however perhaps as a second listening level in a car you simply wish to stream, so you may take heed to the app via CarPlay, Android Auto, and more and more, we’ll have higher options there as effectively.

You simply made some hires to enhance that app and to enhance the type of on-line supply of the content material, proper? Clarify what’s happening there.

So final yr, in January, we introduced Joe Inzerillo on board as our head of product and expertise. He got here from Disney. He was very concerned within the launch of Disney Plus, and as a part of BAMTech, he was concerned in plenty of different D2C video launches as effectively. He has constructed out a staff on the firm targeted on our launch of our next-generation SiriusXM platform. It’ll begin later this yr with new streaming apps as a result of, as we’ve talked about, the corporate began as satellite tv for pc radio with no actual digital connection to the buyer. So we’ve used plenty of conventional advertising strategies to succeed in customers, and going ahead, we wish to guarantee that we are able to use all the infrastructure that he’s constructing throughout commerce and identification, MarTech, and higher information to supply higher experiences for patrons throughout all their touchpoints, whether or not it’s via advertising, within the product, after all, or customer support or wherever else.

I wish to come again to that as a result of that sounds actually attention-grabbing. In the event you simply take into consideration Sirius advertising at this time, you purchase a automobile and also you get mail till you give in and enroll, or the automobile is consistently exhibiting you a preview. And also you’re saying you’re going to construct another equipment, which I wish to discuss. However simply at a extremely fundamental stage, you’ve a brand new group that’s going to construct a brand new on-line platform. They’re in a position to go and deal with a bunch of what at the moment are basically commodity companies.

You employed anyone from BAMTech. They will return to BAMTech and say, “We wish to purchase your platform and use it for streaming audio as a substitute of video.” Or there’s one million different suppliers like AWS. On the satellite tv for pc facet, you described it as a proprietary platform, so there’s in all probability not the large ecosystem of distributors and suppliers to say, “We’re going to construct you a satellite tv for pc radio service.” How is that value cut up up in your head? As you consider operating the corporate, do it’s important to make use of plenty of proprietary satellite tv for pc radio frequency engineers?

We do, and once more, it’s a extremely core a part of our enterprise — ensuring that we’ve got engineers and consultants on all the pieces from the published operations facet via to satellite tv for pc supply, uplink, designing the satellites, working with Maxar as our third celebration that’s developing the satellites, and SpaceX will launch them. However we’re actually concerned within the design of all the pieces: the radios, the receivers, the chipsets, and dealing with third events via that. And we’ve got the identical type of challenges and alternatives everybody else has there: how can we guarantee that we’ve got a number of sources and we are able to proceed to execute on that technique? So we do have plenty of distinctive expertise within the firm to benefit from that very proprietary pipe.

And one of many nice issues about satellite tv for pc supply or broadcast, if you’ll, is as soon as the satellites are within the air, clearly we’ve got the associated fee to take care of them, however it’s largely then a sunk value. We don’t have any variable prices for supply. And on the streaming facet of the enterprise, as we construct that platform and it’s a complement within the automobile for supply for 360L, we could have extra variable prices in the associated fee construction. However sure, there’s a set of widespread, at the least underlying, rules within the structure that we’ll have the ability to leverage as we construct that.

So let me simply decode that. You’re saying you spent a bunch of cash up entrance on the satellite tv for pc; you place it within the sky. That value is value, and it could service nevertheless many shoppers. And that’s high-quality.

And also you go to the cloud, to broadband, and as you add clients, each buyer is a cloud price or a broadband price or another set of prices that come together with each new buyer?

As you’re employed in your projections and also you say, “An increasing number of, we’re going to go to broadband.” Is that one thing you’re factoring in?

Look, we’ve got actually sturdy margins on the SiriusXM facet of the enterprise. Partly, that’s due to our licensing construction, however given our pricing and our excessive variable margins, it simply supplies us plenty of alternative to have the ability to leverage totally different supply mechanisms however nonetheless, on a marginal foundation, be sure that our subscriber economics are very favorable.

Let me ask you the Decoder questions now as a result of I feel we’re proper within the coronary heart of it. How is the corporate structured? How have you ever organized SiriusXM?

We’re functionally structured, so my staff of direct experiences is made up of 4 people that I might say run the vast majority of the enterprise facet of the corporate. We talked about Joe Inzerillo, who’s our head of product and expertise. I’ve Scott Greenstein, who’s head of content material. After which I’ve two people who find themselves extra targeted on the industrial facet of the group: our chief industrial officer, Joe Verbrugge, who’s liable for engagement and onboarding of all subscribers or listeners throughout our companies, and he has all subscription income as effectively; after which John Trimble, who runs all of our advert gross sales. They make up the enterprise facet of the group, after which I’ve 4 people on my staff who’re liable for extra of the company capabilities. Barbara Daniel runs our technique group; after which, after all, our CFO Tom Barry; our head of individuals and tradition, Faye Tylee; after which our basic counsel, Pat Donnelly. After which I’ve a chief of employees who’s improbable in serving to me coordinate the staff.

A useful construction right here is type of attention-grabbing since you do have these massive teams that folks can see — consumer-facing manufacturers—– the radios and the automobiles but additionally Pandora and Stitcher and a bunch of well-known podcast manufacturers like Staff Coco. Do you run all of them centrally? Do you say, “Okay, right here’s the Stitcher technique, and right here’s the automobile radio technique, and that every one rolls as much as me, and I’m setting a technique throughout them”? Since you would assume that these could be extra impartial than not.

The perfect factor is that if we are able to have the useful leaders present their experience throughout these companies. They’re not that numerous within the sense that we’re delivering audio content material to listeners. On the finish of the day, it’s about bringing content material to listeners. I need our head of content material, Scott Greenstein, to be targeted on one of the simplest ways to try this throughout all of the platforms, after which our head of product and tech to be targeted on one of the simplest ways to ship that content material throughout all of the platforms. I actually consider in leveraging the experience throughout these useful leaders, after which we work as a staff, after all, to drive choices which can be going to enhance the enterprise throughout these totally different particular person manufacturers.

One factor I’ve discovered over the previous decade or so being a tech journalist is issues that abstractly appear the identical once you take a look at them on the web are very totally different from a enterprise perspective. When corporations say, “We’re simply going to make use of the web to ship audio the identical method we delivered audio utilizing FM or satellite tv for pc,” my listeners are at all times like, “That’s simply the identical. What’s the distinction between a podcast and a radio present?” That is the place I get to that thesis that the distribution truly has enormous impacts in each instructions, and the enterprise of podcasting is method much less profitable than the enterprise of FM radio. We simply had Conal Byrne from iHeartMedia on the present, and he mentioned FM radio is the place the cash is at, and he’s utilizing the podcasts to assist market that stuff. What’s your most profitable enterprise? Is it nonetheless the satellite tv for pc service?

Positively. The SiriusXM facet is the core a part of the enterprise, and I really feel actually good about the place we’re with that enterprise as a result of we’ve got a extremely worthwhile core enterprise the place our subscriber base could be very loyal. We run an annual buyer satisfaction survey. We’ve had the very best CSAT [customer satisfaction] rating we’ve seen since we began operating it over a decade in the past, and that’s led to actually low churn. Provided that we’ve got excessive variable margins, that flows via total to greater EBITDA margins. And we’re one of the vital worthwhile media corporations on the market. That simply offers us plenty of latitude to evolve the enterprise going ahead.

And I like our place within the promoting facet of the enterprise as effectively as a result of Pandora actually began digital audio promoting all these years in the past, and we’ve got a terrific, succesful staff there. Loads of advert tech with AdsWizz, which Pandora purchased earlier than we acquired Pandora, and we’ve been in a position to leverage that experience, whether or not it’s the gross sales drive or the expertise, to have an even bigger stake within the podcast enterprise as effectively.

When you consider that construction and decision-making, do you ever take into account shifting a present from the podcast distribution community the place the charges may be decrease to the satellite tv for pc distribution community the place you’ve actually excessive margins?

We take into consideration that on a regular basis. We’ve plenty of totally different fashions on the market, and I’m undecided we’ve discovered the correct one. There’s no constant mannequin throughout the board that we level to. A part of it ties again to what the creator or the expertise desires. And there’s this steadiness. Loads of definitely discuss or nonmusic content material creators need broad-based distribution. It ties into relevance and viewers progress, and we’re glad to help that. We’ve plenty of advert illustration offers with expertise like Ashley Flowers at Crime Junkie and her community at Audiochuck, the place she desires broad distribution. So it makes plenty of sense.

The place we’ve got modified the mannequin over time is one thing such as you mentioned with Staff Coco, the place we truly purchased the corporate from Conan O’Brien, and he’s stayed very near producing his very fashionable podcast, Conan [O’Brien] Wants a Buddy, which is broadly distributed, however we even have extra unique content material on SiriusXM. We’ve a linear radio channel that has parts from the podcast but additionally broader parts, and he’s created new content material for that channel.

Over time, the targets are to proceed to help the promoting facet of our enterprise and develop that, and there’s definitely been plenty of tailwinds in podcasting there, but additionally discover methods to serve the core SiriusXM enterprise by bringing extra unique content material to that platform.

I wish to get into that, particularly the podcasting tailwinds as a result of that appears to be only a convulsion that all the audio business went via, and perhaps now we’re getting via the hangover. However first, extra Decoder questions. You’re a part of Liberty Media, a bigger holding firm that famously now owns Components One. One Netflix present turned Liberty Media into the F1 firm. Very good. How does that work with Sirius? How do you combine with that bigger holding firm?

[Liberty Media president and CEO] Greg Maffei is chairman of the SiriusXM board, and since they got here on in 2009, we’ve got had a extremely sturdy relationship with Liberty Media throughout the board. Actually happy to have them concerned within the enterprise.

One of many issues that stands out about Sirius’ programming generally is the entry to sports activities leagues. Each NFL sport, each NBA sport. Do you get preferential remedy from F1 since you’re a part of the household?

We do plenty of work with F1 and the opposite companies throughout the Liberty portfolio, however I wouldn’t say there’s any preferential remedy there. We simply launched the Miami Studios, and we did some issues collectively in Miami as a result of it was proper forward of the F1 race there, and I feel there’ll be extra methods for us to collaborate. We work carefully with Stay Nation on quite a lot of issues. However no, I don’t assume there’s any preferential remedy essentially.

You need to determine easy methods to launch satellites and convey the associated fee down, make investments, go rent folks from BAMTech and Disney and construct an app platform, argue throughout the household dinner desk about F1 rights. How do you make choices? What’s your framework?

I’m an enormous believer, as a result of I’ve this staff of useful consultants, in bringing them collectively and listening to their particular person opinions once we’re confronted with an enormous determination. And I really like the controversy. We’ve at all times had a historical past, at Sirius, of type of energetic debate on a subject. After which I’m hopeful that we’ll come to at least one path on our personal. However clearly, if not, then I’m the decision-maker, and I actually count on the staff to leap on board with no matter determination we’ve made. I’m additionally an enormous fan of taking the contrarian view on one thing. So if we’re taking a look at a call, as an illustration, simply to speculate on this new platform, what occurs if we don’t? And typically, the choice turns into fairly clear once you stack it up that method.

My private favourite mannequin is to simply at all times have the worst concepts within the room. It’s surprisingly enjoyable.

Stroll me via a second the place you needed to be the decision-maker.

In all probability in a few of our content material choices as a result of the problem is determination rights on the finish of the day. If we’re going to launch new content material, I count on our head of content material, Scott Greenstein, to return with that proposal and convey it ahead and clarify why it might make sense, however there are going to be opinions from others as a result of the industrial staff must execute on it and guarantee that we’re getting the worth from that new content material. Or perhaps, if it’s an promoting deal, we’d like the pinnacle of advert gross sales to be on board. However on the finish of the day, these issues is probably not very clear throughout the staff. So, in content material choices, I often take a reasonably energetic function.

One of many massive themes together with your content material choices over, I might say, the previous yr or so, is a extremely heavy emphasis on celeb. You’re getting extra well-known names making podcasts. You acquired Stitcher and Earwolf. These have been a bit of extra indie, a bit of extra crunchy. There’s a reasonably noticeable shift. You’re saying you’re in command of content material choices. Stroll me via that shift.

A few of it’s as a result of the evolution of the place we’re with podcasting — that there’s much more content material on the market, and there’s much more consideration round podcasting. It’s been a terrific funnel for brand spanking new content material for the enterprise. In the event you return to the early phases of our launch at Sirius, we introduced Howard Stern onto the platform, and Howard had a large platform via his core base within the New York Metropolis space, however then he was syndicated extra broadly. It was time. He made the choice he wished to return to Sirius, and that created a very totally different trajectory for the enterprise. It was actually vital that Howard felt it was the correct time for him and that he received the type of freedom that he wished to form the present in the way in which that he wished on Sirius.

That underlies plenty of the choices we make. Growing the content material pipeline that we’ve developed in podcasting has given us publicity to much more expertise, and that goes again to the mannequin that we talked about beforehand of discovering expertise that we are able to deliver behind the paywall to deliver much more worth to our subscribers.

I didn’t count on a content material moderation query on this interview, however you walked into it. With AM and FM, there’s the FCC. There’s an entire authorized regime about spectrum shortage, and that’s why the federal government could make guidelines. I don’t know the way that performs with the satellite tv for pc stuff, however I feel it’s a lot much less. And with the web, all bets are off. The federal government can’t make any speech laws. What are the restrictions in podcast content material that you just’re speaking about?

I truly don’t assume there are that many restrictions. I feel it’s all concerning the enterprise mannequin and ensuring that there’s sufficient brand-safe content material that advertisers wish to take part in. So I truly assume there’s various freedom in podcasting that appears extra just like what we’ve got at SiriusXM. At SiriusXM, we wish a broad set of voices. We’re a platform for primarily opinions. We’ve the information networks on our service and political viewpoints throughout the spectrum, and we’re actually happy with the range that we’ve been in a position to deliver to our platform.

So that you’re saying it’s the market that’s offering no matter restrictions on content material? It’s what advertisers wish to purchase or what integrations, and that may be totally different on the satellite tv for pc service than the digital distributed podcast service?

Again within the day, when Sirius signed Howard Stern, you simply employed a well-known man, he introduced a present over, he was costly, however that’s only a expertise deal. Currently, you’ve been shopping for corporations. You spent $150 million on Conan’s podcast firm. You spend a bunch of cash on Crime Junkie, and you’ve got an advert take care of Crooked Media that’s price a bunch of cash. You’ve gotten 99% Invisible, Stitcher, Earwolf. You’re shopping for corporations. Are you seeing the identical return from shopping for these corporations as from hiring a splashy celeb to host one present?

Sure, we purchased Conan’s enterprise, we purchased Stitcher, we purchased 99% Invisible. The opposite offers you’re referencing are actually advert illustration offers, so we haven’t bought the underlying IP. And the place we’ve made the funding in corporations and shopping for the underlying IP, we consider there’s actual entry to expertise that is smart for our platform and the economics work. On the advert illustration facet of the enterprise, conventional podcast offers are mainly advert share with a type of minimal assure, and we thought these have been essential to our advert gross sales enterprise as a result of we’re closely invested in Pandora with the recognized working platform, however we wished to take part within the progress on the podcasting facet and leverage all these capabilities that we talked about earlier.

Do you assume these offers are figuring out? It looks like there was an actual land rush to signal these sorts of offers. Disclosure: Vox Media has a podcasting community, they do it, too. Spotify spent a bunch of cash, you spent a bunch of cash, everybody else spent a bunch of cash. Did it work out? It looks like that interval has actually cooled off.

In the event you take a look at our first quarter numbers, podcasting advert income is down about 2 %, however podcasting was up 34 %. So there may be nonetheless a tailwind on advert gross sales in podcasting. I’m actually happy with the set of content material that we’ve got on the advert illustration facet. Concerning the offers, it was positively very aggressive over the previous few years. I feel the big property have largely traded. And I feel there’s a longtime set of distributors on the market within the advert rep enterprise who actually love our content material slate. We’ve 5 of the highest 15 podcasts. We’ve a broad illustration throughout comedy, true crime, and information, so we’re effectively positioned to benefit from what I consider are continued tailwinds in podcasting — not solely from a listener progress standpoint however from an advertiser standpoint as a result of many manufacturers are still sitting on the sidelines. It’s a small portion of their price range, however we actually have seen, as an illustration, programmatic develop fairly properly during the last a number of months, particularly as advertisers’ budgets unlock on the final minute. They will are available in and purchase throughout our podcast community, whether or not they wish to purchase inside a selected present or they wish to purchase throughout an viewers that might cowl all of our podcasts.

You talked about the AdsWizz acquisition earlier. You’ve received some expertise the place you may attempt to goal listeners. That is the problem in podcasting: determining easy methods to get the correct adverts in entrance of the correct folks. And you then’ve received folks like me who’re cranky about host reads. Apologies to our podcast adverts staff. These are very private. You’ll be able to’t goal these. You’ll be able to’t simply self-service purchase them. You’ve received to go discover expertise. They’ve received to truly learn it. The platforms are standing proper there to disintermediate you. You’ll be able to simply go purchase the adverts programmatically on Spotify, versus coming to Sirius, or you may go purchase the adverts programmatically on YouTube, or go to the podcast host immediately. How do you sit within the center and say, “You need to truly purchase the adverts from us in podcasting?”

Positive, yow will discover different programmatic options, however I feel the direct gross sales element is admittedly vital nonetheless. In the event you take a look at anyone like Conan, who loves doing host-read adverts, truly. Possibly it’s best to spend a while listening to his.

There’s an actual distinction between being an entertainer and a journalist, however it’s all proper.

They’re improbable. He has a whole podcast episode on adverts that he’s finished, and he does it for the manufacturers that he actually believes in. We’ve had plenty of success with massive manufacturers on his podcast. I feel it actually relies on what the advertiser desires and if they need these customized integrations or they need publicity to stay occasions. Loads of podcasters are doing increasingly more stay occasions. We will deliver that set of capabilities, along with programmatics. So it’s a few bigger purchase.

However is that extra bespoke? “You’re going to spend extra money, however you’re going to get Conan O’Brien studying the adverts for you. You’re going to spend extra money with us, and we’re going to verify our hosts learn throughout the community.” Or is it, “You’re going to spend extra money with us, and we’ll effectively attain extra viewers,” which is what the platforms would say? 

Sure, and “you may attain extra viewers,” clearly past podcasts. There are podcasts distributed broadly throughout all different platforms in addition to ours, whether or not that’s Apple or Spotify or YouTube. And we’ll distribute that and symbolize these adverts there. But in addition, for advertisers, we are able to offer you options on broadcast, SiriusXM. It’s a comparatively small portion of our advert income, however there are plenty of prosperous clients listening on SiriusXM or Pandora, after all, which is admittedly the most important piece of the puzzle at this time for us, the place we are able to serve adverts throughout the Pandora platform with much more first-party information and focused adverts.

So Pandora, to you, represents the direct competitors with the platforms of Spotify and YouTube. You’ve received first-party information, listeners logged in, you realize who they’re, you realize the place they’re, in all probability, and you may serve adverts immediately.

Is that rising? Are you investing in Pandora to make it develop into a real competitor to Spotify and the remainder?

Pandora was type of late to the sport on interactive, so we’ve got a pleasant variety of subscribers, about 6 million. By way of totally different tiers, we’ve got radio service with out adverts, Pandora Plus, after which we’ve got a small tier, which is absolutely interactive or on demand. However I consider the longer term for Pandora is admittedly within the free tier. And we nonetheless have, if not the most important, one of many high two largest free music streaming companies within the US. And we’ve got plenty of sturdy advert expertise and, once more,  the advert gross sales staff promoting throughout that platform. I feel, from a shopper standpoint, we’ve got a possibility to proceed to enhance the listener expertise, however in our sequencing of what we’re constructing… We will transfer Pandora to this new streaming platform, too, however that’s in all probability later subsequent yr as a result of we’ve got plenty of thrilling issues approaching the SiriusXM facet between every now and then.

Do you assume the common shopper ought to know that SiriusXM and Pandora are the identical firm? Ought to they know concerning the connection there? As a result of, proper now, they appear very totally different.

Not at this time, and I don’t assume the common shopper does know that at this time. We’ve been in a position to deliver the capabilities that Pandora affords to SiriusXM, which has been actually vital, whether or not it’s algorithmic programming or efficiency media or extra digital CRM-type advertising capabilities that we simply didn’t have at Sirius. A part of that’s as a result of Pandora’s had all this information for a very long time, and at Sirius, we actually haven’t had that a lot information on listening as a result of, with the in-car, this satellite tv for pc supply mechanism, there’s no return path of information.

So I don’t know what you’re listening to in your 2016 automobile, however now, with 360L and, more and more, our in-car clients streaming our service outdoors of the automobile and our streaming-only clients, we’ve received this actually wholesome dataset. So we’ve been in a position to leverage plenty of the capabilities from Pandora to assist SiriusXM. After which, there’s been different ways in which we’ve introduced the manufacturers collectively in several cases. We’ve the Pandora Now station on SiriusXM, we’ve got SiriusXM content material once in a while pop up on Pandora. So we’ve been in a position to deliver content material forwards and backwards. However actually, I feel the largest profit has been on the capabilities.

I’m listening to 1st Wave, ’80s on 8, and Lithium. It’s a direct line. After which, each every so often, I take heed to TikTok Radio, which makes me really feel like one million years previous.

That’s a terrific set of channels. You need to have seven or so as a result of that’s what the common listener has, seven channels.

One thing like that. You’ve gotten tons of of channels, however you’re saying the common listener has seven. Pandora widens you out, proper? You simply begin and off it goes.

Six million subscribers, advert supported. I take heed to different streaming firm CEOs, and so they say, “Look, the longer term might be some mixture of subscription and adverts collectively.” Netflix is a subscription. They’ve added an adverts tier. They appear to be doing fairly effectively with it. Disney’s headed that method. Is it the identical in audio? Is it going to be the identical combo the place you pay a price however you get some adverts alongside the way in which?

Sure, I feel so. I do consider, although, that SiriusXM, given the premium nature of what we’re offering, we received’t have plenty of adverts within the service. We do have adverts on our nonmusic content material, however as we look ahead to the flexibleness that the brand new platform will present us on, say, the commerce facet, we are able to create much more packages. An ad-supported package deal may be compelling, particularly to our core segments who perhaps don’t wish to pay $19 a month for our core service. So we’ve got the chance to create extra ad-supported channels, we are able to put adverts within the music channels, and I feel we’ll have a possibility to check that once we launch what we’re calling our quick service later this yr. It’ll begin rolling out in 360L automobiles, and we are able to do extra IP focused adverts via that as effectively. And that’ll give us plenty of flexibility to simply take a look at out totally different fashions with what content material is obtainable. Possibly it’s a free tier, perhaps it’s only a lower-price tier, and modify the advert load, as an illustration, or the content material that’s out there.

So we talked so much concerning the type of overheated podcast enterprise, the massive acquisitions, the flashy spending. You probably did should have layoffs earlier this yr, about 7 or 8 % of your workforce. It looks like plenty of that was within the podcast a part of the enterprise. Stroll us via what occurred there and the way you made that call.

We got here into this yr understanding that each auto gross sales and advert gross sales have been going to proceed to be delicate for some time frame. We’re a public firm, we’re delivering worth to our shareholders as effectively, and we’re very targeted on ensuring that we had self-discipline round our spending and we checked out each facet of the associated fee construction. We did plenty of work final yr to not have to handle the folks facet, and we got here into this yr with a extremely considerate strategic method to not solely cut back prices but additionally to take a look at the enterprise and guarantee that we could possibly be more practical and environment friendly. That meant some reorganization, probably not at my management staff stage, however at groups beneath my leaders to deliver issues like analytics groups collectively on advertising or content material groups collectively on the content material facet of the group.

It positively didn’t have an effect on podcasting greater than another staff. It was fairly evenly unfold all through the group, and my fundamental focus, having probably not finished one in every of these because the merger, was that we handled folks pretty and respectfully and that we ended up in a spot the place the staff which can be nonetheless with us really feel very related with what we’re doing and have a set of duties that they’re enthusiastic about.

Do you assume you’ll’ve needed to minimize much less if you happen to hadn’t splashed as closely on the podcast acquisitions or the podcast spending?

No, I feel the offers we’ve finished in podcasting actually set us up effectively for the longer term. In something, you’re going to have to speculate up entrance. I’m actually excited concerning the monetization alternatives which can be beginning to play out and the place we’re going to be sooner or later.

The factor that pursuits me about Pandora proper now’s that it’s in the course of cutting-edge copyright lawsuits, and I’m an previous copyright lawyer, in order that’s captured my consideration. Loads of comedians are suing Pandora saying that they’re owed two units of royalty funds, each for the efficiency of their comedy and the underlying publishing rights to the written model of the comedy. There’s not plenty of precedent for that. You’ll be able to see how, within the present market of mental property, everyone seems to be on the lookout for the following cost as a result of charges have simply fallen so low with digital distribution. The place are you on that? Are you going to return to a decision, or are you going to go all the way in which to a trial?

I can’t touch upon the standing of the litigation, however I’ll inform you Pandora’s been a terrific platform, supportive of comedians for a lot of, a few years. And with the comedians whose works we licensed from the labels, in lots of instances, we at all times thought we’ve had the entire proper, whether or not it’s recording or the writing of the underlying jokes. As this litigation began, we did see some comedians depart the group which can be taking part alongside the plaintiff as a result of we needed to take down their works till it’s resolved. So we’ve got had some comedians break free from that so as to get their content material again up on our platform. However I actually consider in comedy; it’s been one of many largest drivers of listening outdoors of music on Pandora and is definitely core to our SiriusXM service as effectively. So we’ll proceed to work via it and hopefully come to a decision.

You run one of the vital attention-grabbing content material companies on the market since you are so regulated when it comes to rights and funds that you just ship out to folks. Satellite tv for pc radio licensing charges are written into federal regulation. We’re type of staring down the abyss of copyright regulation with generative AI and with the ability to pretend voices and names and likenesses and fake Drake. Are you simply ready for the bomb to go off? Are you actively taking part in conversations about what the longer term charge buildings needs to be?

Our core music licenses on the SiriusXM facet of the enterprise are licensed via the US Copyright Royalty Board. We’ve a longtime charge in place via… I consider it’s the tip of 2027, and we’re paying on the musical works that we play, and we aren’t actually concerned within the era of music. So whereas I feel AI will likely be very constructive when it comes to its affect on our enterprise, there usually are not actually the identical points that we’d see in different platforms.

You’ve gotten TikTok Radio. AI Drake explodes on TikTok. Would TikTok Radio play the pretend Drake music?

I don’t know. I suppose we haven’t actually crossed that bridge but, however we’ve at all times been alongside the artists on this, and I feel we’ve had a extremely sturdy place in breaking new artists and constructing their careers and do wish to proceed to guarantee that we’re doing that.

The TikTok Radio piece of the puzzle is definitely actually fascinating to me as a result of there’s a lot content material on TikTok the place it’s only a creator or somebody like Charlie Puth simply screwing round, and there’s no related label to go negotiate with. There’s no infrastructure of licensing that content material and ensuring funds truly attain the creators. However plenty of it truly does find yourself on TikTok Radio. Do you’ve a staff that’s identical to, “We’re going to go determine easy methods to license these items?”

I imply, TikTok Radio can be a curated expertise. So we’re highlighting the content material that has turn out to be common on TikTok, so we’ve got the chance to determine what’s on the channel and what’s not, proper?

However I hear remixes on there that, if I have been a programmer, I couldn’t inform you even the place to start to go get the rights to a well-liked music that’s had a remix and has now been sped up by a 3rd particular person. That simply looks like a puzzle of rights administration that in some way finally ends up on the radio.

All of our content material is licensed both via the US CRB on the recording facet or with direct offers we’ve got with the publishers, principally via the collectives, proper? ASCAP, BMI, and so forth. So these musical works could be licensed via these offers that we’ve got in place already.

Let’s discuss automobiles. I’ve been superb at not speaking about automobiles this whole time. That’s all I wish to do. I feel you’ve probably the most distinctive perspective on the automobile business. The best way I give it some thought, you’ve been making software program for automobiles as the one third-party app vendor for 20 years. You purchase a Ford in 2004. There’s no app platform in there, however Sirius’ code and {hardware} is in there. We’re present process a large shift within the automobile enterprise. Sirius’ enterprise is admittedly uncovered to the automobile enterprise. You’ve talked about it a number of occasions. The very first thing I seen is that the business is promoting fewer, costlier automobiles. The development all of the automobile makers appear to be on is as a substitute of plenty of $50,000 pickup vans, they’re going to promote fewer $100,000 pickup vans. That’s the place they’re going. That simply reduces the variety of automobiles you may activate Sirius in. Is that one thing you’re apprehensive about?

The automobile market is definitely our largest funnel. We’re in simply over 80 % of latest automobile gross sales and simply over 50 % of used automobile gross sales. So each time anyone buys a brand new automobile, it’s one other alternative for us to get a brand new subscriber, or we’ve got present subscribers buying and selling their automobiles or including a automobile to the storage. It’s actually impactful on our enterprise, and we’ve seen subscriber additions gradual on account of that due to the previous few years. We’re beginning to see provide points alleviate, a few of the provide has grown, notably for the home manufacturers. That’s going to proceed. And within the automotive business, there have been these cycles prior to now the place everybody likes to say, “Properly, the margins are actually excessive. Possibly the business will pull again on stock ranges.” However on the finish of the day, it’s fairly aggressive, and so they desire a share. So I count on that, over time, so long as the demand is there and provide begins to return again, gross sales will finally rise as a result of the automakers wish to go after that incremental sale.

Car company CEOs love to look on Decoder. I really like having them. There’s an enormous shift in how we understand of automobiles. They’re changing into far more built-in computing units, particularly with the shift to EVs. One of many causes they’re enthusiastic about that’s as a result of they’re taking a look at Apple’s margins within the App Retailer and saying, “I need 30 % of each transaction that occurs on this display, too.” You’re proper within the heart of that, proper? You’re saying, “Put my {hardware} in your automobiles. Right here’s a subscription price to a really premium service.” Up till now, it doesn’t seem to be there’s been an enormous income share happening there, however I can think about each automobile maker goes to say, “Why would I work with you once I can go signal a brand new type of take care of Spotify and get a % of their minimize?”

There’s plenty of income. From day one, we’ve shared within the subscription income with our companions, and I feel not solely does that differentiate between us and different media companies as a result of we’ve got the margins to have the ability to help that, however it additionally helps us have interaction with the OEMs to guarantee that we’ve got the identical incentives, that the service is prominently displayed on the display, that we’re getting data on the purchasers so we are able to market, sending that junk mail that you just get, or emailing clients, ensuring that the trial’s truly on, and it’s very simple to get into the service after you’ve purchased the automobile. You’ve gotten plenty of different issues in your thoughts once you purchase a brand new automobile, so we wish to be certain that the service is on and dealing once you step into that new car and also you get to expertise all of the content material. So the income share has been key to that when it comes to working carefully with the OEMs on what the longer term is for SiriusXM.

Do you assume that income share goes to supply a moat towards competitors? You mentioned you had excessive margins since you’re the one premium providing in a automobile. There actually wasn’t one other one. Now, you’ve received folks like me with their telephones on their dashboard operating Apple Music. You’ve received CarPlay and Android Auto that exposes that immediately within the interface. Is competitors from telephones bringing down your margins within the automobile?

No, it’s not bringing down the margin. In the end, we’re agnostic about what distribution we use. So we’ll at all times have an built-in radio expertise within the automobile with the receiver, and ideally going ahead, our greatest platform is 360L when it comes to offering one of the best expertise for the buyer as a result of satellite tv for pc supply permits for uninterrupted supply of our service throughout the US. In fact, with modems, there are at all times going to be dropouts in much less closely networked areas of the nation, whether or not city or much less dense areas. So that may be a actual profit to satellite tv for pc supply. However with the IP supply, we are able to truly customise the service in ways in which all the opposite media companies can do.

So yeah, the infotainment programs within the automobile have been evolving for years, and we’ve actually been on the forefront of that, ensuring that we’re designing for these new infotainment programs, working carefully with the OEMs but additionally, in some instances, working carefully with, say, Google, who’s launching Android Automotive, the working system within the automobiles. That’s going to present us much more flexibility, too, as a result of we are able to replace our service quarterly or so identical to each different media app, but additionally we’ll be represented in a number of locations in that display as effectively.

So, that is one in every of my favourite methods of fascinated about value. You’ve received two buttons on a display, and also you push one button, name it Nilay’s Music Service so that you’re not speaking about your rivals immediately. However Nilay’s Music Service is an IP-based streaming service. You would possibly say it appears so much like Spotify. And I push that button, and I’m simply buying and selling on all the cell broadband infrastructure that exists. And I’d even be buying and selling on a shopper’s personal broadband subscription so I don’t even have to fret about that, and that prices 10 bucks a month.

I push the Sirius icon on that very same display, one other interface opens, and now, I’ve received your satellites within the air, I’ve received customized {hardware} within the automobile, I’ve received a 360L system within the background operating. That’s all simply costlier.

However all that’s taking place to me as the buyer is I’m clicking a button and listening to music. How are you going to compete towards the absolutely digital platforms which can be buying and selling on different folks’s connectivity?

So costlier within the sense that we’ve launched satellites and we’ve received this infrastructure? As a result of that’s already in place. 

Properly, simply the price of SiriusXM is greater than the price of Spotify.

Yeah. In order we develop this new… our next-generation SiriusXM platform, we’re making an attempt to resolve for a number of totally different key ache factors, which goes to permit us to broaden the universe of our potential subscribers. And people are worth, management, and discovery. That’s what we hear time and time once more.

So the expertise itself goes to verify, as a result of it’s so vital, whether or not you’re listening to our service via the cell app, via CarPlay or Android Auto, otherwise you’re leveraging an embedded streaming model, or an embedded satellite tv for pc plus streaming and 360L that, finally, we have to present extra management and discovery to the buyer.

As a result of, prior to now, it had been all about broadcast and simply flip the dial to seek out new channels, and that’s not what many youthful customers definitely wish to do.

So, offering these extra enhanced suggestions goes to be key to that. We’ve a lot nice content material, however it’s very laborious to get customers into content material in the event that they don’t know what we’ve got.

After which, offering hyperlinks from that embedded radio expertise and the automobile out to the streaming apps in order that discovery can occur there, which can be a greater place to facilitate it.

After which these behaviors, these listening behaviors, can come again into the automobile. As customers expertise totally different channels or totally different content material outdoors of the automobile will deliver these experiences and behaviors again into the automobile.

Ford goes to go from right here to there with their software program stack. They’re alleged to be shifting to Android. Who is aware of? They hold launching automobiles with out it. I have to get Jim Farley again on the present and ask him about it. GM simply redesigned their interface to say, “We don’t need CarPlay and Android Auto anymore, and our new EVs going ahead received’t even have it.” Tesla exists. My new Jeep that has 360L runs a forked model of Android that’s based mostly on Alexa and TomTom maps for some completely bonkers cause. That’s plenty of software program floor to cowl. That’s plenty of platforms to help.

One extraordinarily common theme on the present is that after you begin investing in software program, the prices simply escalate and by no means come again down. How are you fascinated about that — supporting 95 totally different automobile makers and their bizarro platform concepts?

That’s the place one thing like AAOS [Android Automotive operating system] is available in, which I consider about 70 % of OEMs have mentioned that they will undertake. We’ll see. That helps us streamline the event course of as a result of it’s mainly one app, and we are able to distribute it throughout all these gamers.

However that truly hasn’t come true but. Ford introduced that they have been moving to Android virtually 18 months in the past, and the brand new Mustang is out, and it nonetheless runs QNX with Unreal on high of it. They’re nonetheless taking a look at this and saying, “The large platform corporations are sitting on high of us.”

Final yr, virtually precisely a yr in the past now at Apple WWDC, they introduced a model of CarPlay that might take over all of the screens in your automobile.

Do you see that occuring? Do you hear that rumble within the business — that the automobile makers as soon as thought they might surrender the automobile interface to Apple and Google, and they’re truly realizing that it’s not the correct selection?

I feel the automakers don’t wish to surrender management, so that they’re looking for the areas the place the Huge Tech corporations can help them, however finally, they will nonetheless management the person interface and attempt to take part extra within the companies enterprise.

So we’ve got to be actually versatile, and we actually have been for 20 years, as a result of we’ve needed to design for these totally different automotive UIs since inception, and it was extra {hardware} and fewer software program, and over time, it’s shifted to much more software program.

We’ve already had the infrastructure, the staff, the assets in place to have the ability to design throughout a number of sorts of implementation. I’d say we in all probability had much less management over what that seemed like than we’ll going ahead so long as the OEMs are inclined to coalesce round a number of totally different options, however we’re going to have much more flexibility it doesn’t matter what, particularly as we design for these new options which can be coming ahead.

Right here’s a particularly loaded query. Do you utilize CarPlay in your automobile?

I do, yeah, however I transfer forwards and backwards between the SiriusXM radio, after which I’m utilizing CarPlay for my navigation.

I don’t even use CarPlay in my automobile. I simply mount my telephone on the dashboard, which my Vergecast listeners know. They assume it’s the dumbest factor on the planet, and I ought to simply use CarPlay.

However that shift the place I might fairly have two screens together with your interface on one display and a map on the opposite — no automobile does this effectively. Are you pleased with how your software program is being expressed within the automobile, and do you assume the automobile makers are going to provide the instruments to get to the place you need to be?

Partly, it comes again to 2 issues: income share, which definitely motivates, and shopper demand. So one of many largest complaints we hear very often from customers who’ve quite a lot of these startup EVs — excessive finish, new introductions to the market on the EV facet the place we aren’t current at this time, although we simply launched a beta model in Lucid — is that SiriusXM isn’t there, and it’s not simple to make use of essentially.

I feel that works in our favor, particularly as a result of, once more, we’ve got plenty of prosperous clients who simply come into their new car purchases and count on us to exist there. So I do consider that’s going to be a drive to assist us navigate this with the OEMs to make sure that our presence on the display could be very apparent and that clients can get proper into the service simply.

You talked about you didn’t have plenty of management over your person interface earlier than. That is smart for one million causes. Now, we’re simply placing full-on tablets in the course of automobiles, for higher or worse. These are app platforms. You’ll be able to design the app nevertheless you need. Is your imaginative and prescient that the app on a telephone, the app on a automobile, the app on an iPad ought to all look and work the identical?

There ought to definitely be continuity, however we’ve designed for these in-car experiences for a very long time, and we perceive the safety and security tips via NHTSA for in-car implementation, so I feel it’ll naturally be totally different within the automobile. We will do much more within the apps when it comes to permitting for management and discovery, however we wish the continuity throughout the platform. What we’re constructing now will permit for that, whether or not you’re listening via the apps or within the automobile or in some methods via related units within the residence as effectively.

The place do you assume the endpoint of this massive shift to automobiles as computer systems is? Is it, “Lastly, we’re going to do away with the steering wheel and self-driving occurs and everybody simply is in a world of screens fortunately buying of their automobiles,” or is there a unique type of endpoint?

We’re definitely speaking a methods out into the longer term, proper? It’s actually attention-grabbing as a result of, I’d say, 10 years in the past, everybody was speaking about autonomous, and it was the largest subject for the automotive business, and also you don’t actually hear as a lot about it anymore. It’s all about electrical, and we’ve received our fingers full, I feel, as a rustic and an business and simply rolling out electrical automobiles.

I’m biased. I’m at an audio firm, however I do consider that intimate listening expertise to audio in a automobile, one thing that we do phenomenally effectively, individuals are simply obsessed with it — whether or not it’s 1st Wave or Richard Blade otherwise you’re passionate concerning the host and the curation that exists on our service, that audio listening expertise, even when the steering wheel goes away, goes to proceed for an extended, very long time.

That is the menace, although. I used to be asking about it properly, and also you have been speaking about it immediately, which is: you’re taking out the steering wheel and now everyone seems to be watching YouTube on their telephones. Do you see that as an existential menace? Do it’s important to market towards that?

Actually not at this time, and I might say it’s going to be much more like 20 years into the longer term, and even then, it’s a small quantity of automobiles popping out, and I do assume, at some stage, it flies within the face of what customers actually need. There are plenty of customers on the market that need the driving expertise, and once more, it’s been all of those years, we’ve all been skilled as customers on audio within the automobile, and it’s a really particular related expertise to be listening to, whether or not it’s your music, your favourite channel, or your favourite discuss host.

It could possibly be Howard or Andy Cohen or Megyn Kelly. We’ve such nice expertise on our platform that I feel these connections and that behavior could be very effectively established. It’s going to take so much to disrupt that.

The place do you assume the mix of podcasting and broadcast comes collectively? As a result of what we’ve talked about because the begin of this dialog is: on the finish of the day, the buyer type of doesn’t perceive the distinction between the distribution, however your online business positively does, proper? Your online business is aware of, “With the satellites within the automobiles, there’s a complete well-built, profitable enterprise mannequin with excessive margins.” After which, over right here on podcasting, we’re nonetheless inventing advert monitoring tech and advertising expertise, and that’s a wide-open area.

If self-driving is 20 years away, you’re not apprehensive about that — the convergence of these issues looks like tomorrow, proper? We’re truly asking folks to pay some huge cash for a {hardware} streaming system when the automobiles have Stage 2 driving, and you may perhaps screw together with your telephone a bit of bit extra. That’s going to get increasingly more squeeze. Are you fascinated about that?

We’re fascinated about it in how we’re designing this platform as a result of it comes again to, once more, addressing these gaps we’ve got round management and discovery, however essentially, we’re a curated audio expertise. I feel what our clients love most about us is that we do assist information you thru the content material you’ll love, and we’ve got a set of music channels that our customers love. We’ve a set of discuss audio content material that our subscribers love. Which may be within the type of podcasts or simply on demand. It could possibly be stay exhibits which can be tailored to on-demand and present up as a podcast.

So I feel so long as we’re offering that guided expertise and providing customers a extra curated expertise to allow them to assist discover the content material that they love, that’s the place we offer plenty of added worth versus plenty of different platforms, the place you’re simply doing essentially much more work to seek out issues that you just love.

All proper, Jennifer, this has been nice. Thanks a lot for giving me on a regular basis. Thanks for indulging the automobile discuss. Really, I might have finished the complete hour on simply what’s going to occur to the automobile.

We will come again and try this.

You mentioned there’s a brand new app coming. Give us the timeline. What’s subsequent for Sirius?

We’re actually enthusiastic about this next-generation expertise. It begins with a launch later this yr within the fourth quarter with a set of latest streaming apps, but additionally step one in re-architecting all the pieces, all of the foundational capabilities — actually addressing each shopper touchpoint with higher commerce, identification, MarTech information capabilities. That foundational expertise will enhance relevance, ease of use, and worth for our subscribers and potential trialers and actually go towards addressing these ache factors that we’ve talked about, whether or not it’s flexibility on worth or extra management and discovery. And it’s going to assist improve the streaming expertise — if you happen to’re a streaming-only subscriber or if you happen to’re an in-car subscriber, whether or not you’re leveraging satellite tv for pc solely or 360L, it’ll assist together with your listening behaviors outdoors of the automobile, that are delivered by streaming or the streaming infrastructure that helps 360L. And simply, once more, enhancing worth for our subscribers by offering simpler navigation of our service and extra discovery of all the good content material we’ve got.

I feel it positions us rather well for the longer term. We’ve a extremely sturdy basis financially but additionally a really loyal, happy set of subscribers that we are able to construct off of as we launch this subsequent expertise.

Wonderful. Trying ahead to that. When the app launches, you’re going to have to return again and inform us all about it.

Can’t wait. Thanks, Nilay.